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<\/a>Gregg Stebben and Ilya Ponomarev Interview: Does Putin Have to Die?<\/p><\/div>\n
Gregg:<\/b><\/span> Hello, <\/span>Greg here with Ilya Ponomarev. It’s been a few weeks since we’ve talked, Ilya. I<\/span>t’s great to see you again, <\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> Nice to find Nice here. Yes. We were so busy with the Congress and with my travel, so I’m, I’m really sorry that I missed several of our endeavors. <\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> Well, here we are. We’re back again at our usual time.<\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>obviously, the first thing for us to talk about is the Congress, which was held from the 20th to the 23rd of February, <\/span>leading right up to the anniversary of the Russian invasion. Tell us about what happened there. <\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>well, <\/span>the Congress went really well. We doubled in size, <\/span>which was really good.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> A<\/span>nd it was very professional. I think that the professional level of the documents that were discussed and prepared by Congress also increased. And they were very important ones. We passed in the final reading of the law on Freedom of Speech, which is the fundamental law obviously for future Russia.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> And we also passed in the final reading the law administrations, which basically sets the parameter of the future deification of Russia and cleansing of Russian elites, <\/span>from Bhutanese, <\/span>and from people who were making war crimes in Ukraine and who actually led the country to the situation, <\/span>which we see in Syria now.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>and besides that, <\/span>we started discussing the transition plan, the roadmap for the changes in Russia, passed them in the first reading as a concept, <\/span>which defines how Russia would transition from the current authoritarian state to the future democracy. And, <\/span>we passed the very fundamental bill, which is the Bill of rights.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>which is, <\/span>the foundation for the future Constitution. And we started discussing the future constitution. So, <\/span>I think that we are progressing quite well. The next Congress would be held somewhere in June this year. And hope that, <\/span>our numbers will grow once again.<\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> I’m very biased. Obviously, I was born and raised in the United States. I’m a citizen of the United States as you’re describing your work there, and having been there at the first Congress myself in Warsaw, every time I think about the Congress, what I am reminded of is the founding fathers of the United States\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> Doing similar work with, I would like to say, great outcome, as we know this will have a great outcome as well. I’d like to suggest. I’m saying this somewhat to suggest that the next Congress be held in Philadelphia, where the founding fathers of the US met, perhaps even in the same hall if it could be arranged.<\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>you know, I’m always trying to connect the dots for people between the founding fathers of the US and the work they did. And the work you’re doing there, with the first Congress. I’m sorry, with the Congress of people’s deputies. <\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>you know, <\/span>also, that’s a very pleasant comparison, <\/span>which is very close to my heart as well.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>and, <\/span>I think it’s, <\/span>it should be accurate. History would tell. And that’s definitely for us, the example to follow. That’s exactly the example that we’re trying to recreate in the approaches in other constitutions. We are trying to take many of the examples from the history of the United States and the approaches that were there, and, <\/span>in the most fundamental thing, in the layout of the regions, in the federal structure of future Russia.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>the example of the United States is exactly the one that we are for. So rights to the region, power to the regions, <\/span>all the key decisions to the regions, and only a very limited set of authority to the center. What is related to the national defense or national infrastructure, stuff like this\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> But, <\/span>as much as possible, go to the regions, <\/span>and many other, by the way, examples we were discussing. The layout of the future Parliament, by bicameral structure, also resembles the structure of the House of Representatives and the Senate in the United States. With the terms of the judicial system, <\/span>we are taking a lot\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> of positive examples from the states. We introduce the judges, <\/span>the elected judges. We\u2019re introducing the elected sheriffs, <\/span>and, <\/span>and, and many things like this. So power to the people. It’s actually very funny. It was one of the most debated features of the current American system.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>the Second Amendment, <\/span>you know, went into our new Constitution without any debate. It was unanimously supported by Congress, so we now have exactly the same thing in our constitution. And I do believe that it’s a great thing to do despite all the controversy that it creates in the states. I really think that you guys just have nothing to compare it with.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>and I think it’s a positive thing, <\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> you know that\u2026 I’m sorry, go ahead. <\/span><\/p>\n Ilya: <\/b><\/span>Yeah, and then, then many other things, <\/span>because, <\/span>also things which are being discussed, <\/span>currently in the states about, <\/span>the same-sex marriages, for example, rights to abortion and whatever. We also took the approach that it has to be decided by the regions. <\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> It has to be the general framework. It has to be certain guarantees on the federal level. And these guarantees say that there should be no discrimination on the basis of gender. And the person has the right to decide about his own body. But at the same time, the exact policies need to be decided at the state level.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> So on the region’s level in Russia. <\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> One of the things I want to ask you about, <\/span>and I want to come back to some things you talked about relative to the Congress, but for now, I wanna make a transition from what you said a few minutes ago about you know, one of the most important laws, <\/span>that has been taken up by the Congress is the freedom of speech.<\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> You and I have talked about this before, how it is such a fundamental thing that must be captured in law in a rock-solid way. Is there a comparison to be drawn between the work you’re doing and the recognition you as a body see for freedom of speech I’m including in that freedom of media and what is happening in Georgia right now?<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>I wouldn’t say that there is a direct connection, although there is one. And this connection is what the protest in Georgia is all about is on the law. That they call themselves Farra, <\/span>as it is in the United States. The law and the foreign agents, <\/span>and obviously, they’re copied in the Russian approach, not the United States approach.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> They’re referring to the United States, <\/span>but they’re copied in the Russian approach in the United States. This law that was passed in the 1930s, if I’m not mistaken, in 1938, was a law which, <\/span>was to prevent Nazi Propaganda within the United States that was preventing fascist influence inside the country.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> And that was, <\/span>actually applied something like 10 times. And after the war, it was applied two times. And that was it, <\/span>because, <\/span>it was very precise. And many attempts later to apply the law. They all actually failed. In Russia. It’s one of the most widely applicable laws at the moment.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> And all Russian journalists and all Russian political activists, they know that if they are unloyal to Mr. Putin, they would be branded foreign agents, and it’s like yellow David Star, <\/span>in the concentration camps that you are supposed to wear with you all the time, no matter what you say. No matter, no matter whether you appear, <\/span>you, <\/span>will be branded at, you are the foreign agent and then Russian\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>this, <\/span>combination for an agent, it’s more like a traitor, how, the way it sounds. So it’s even, it’s, it’s even worse than it is in the United States. And, <\/span>Georgian, obviously, <\/span>the current Georgian leadership they were preparing for the future elections, <\/span>which are to take place there in 2024.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> And they wanted to use the Russian example to clean up from all the opposition. And it’s very funny actually, you know, I was speaking yesterday on Georgia TV. About this because, obviously, I was one of the main people who were fighting against this law in Russia. And I was asking them a question how the Georgian leadership actually explains the introduction of this law is this law definitely targeted against somebody who is a threat to national security, who wants to influence the\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> Country illegally, <\/span>to steer it away. So when it was introduced in the United States, it was very clearly said this is the law against Nazis, <\/span>against Nazi Germany, and against their agents of influence. When it was introduced by Putin, it was also pretty clearly said it’s the law against, <\/span>the consolidated Western NATO, you know, and their proxies inside Russia.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> So it’s very clear because Buchan considered them. We, the threat for the national security, and that was openly said, they, these are the bad guys, you know, whom we want to protect ourselves from. For Georgians, the only real threat for Georgia at the moment is Russia, who actually invaded the territory, <\/span>and created the war, et cetera.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> But no, they were not saying as the government was not saying that it’s, <\/span>the law against, <\/span>Russia. They also were saying that it’s some illegal Western influence. This is somebody who would be neglecting our Orthodox church, Georgian Orthodox Church, our core family values, and, you know, stuff like this.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>okay. You guys at Georgia, you officially said that you want to be a part of Nato and you want to be part of the European Union then, <\/span>whom you are protecting yourself from. And that’s obviously, this contradiction resulted in the mass process. And I’m happy to say that the protestors, <\/span>were\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> victorious, and the Parliament actually withdrew. They canceled this piece of legislation, quantum safety of something else. And that’s, <\/span>it’s very good news. That means that in Georgia, democracy is still alive.<\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> Does the size of those protests and the success of those protests?<\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> Is this meaningful and another piece of a puzzle that begins to chip away significantly at Mr. Putin’s position in Russia? <\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> Well, obviously, it’s a powerful example. It’s a powerful example. It’s very inspiring to many of the members of the Russian opposition. Everybody is discussing, this thing right now, but at the same time, <\/span>we need to say that.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> <\/span>also, when people come here, they say, ah, because Georgian authorities are weak because Georgian authorities did not use the firearms, <\/span>because, <\/span>Georgians are not that oppressive. Against their own people that it’s not such a long period of time past, <\/span>since this current government is in place.<\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span> That’s why they did not manage to consolidate as much as, as it happened in Russia. So I am afraid that many of the representatives of the Russian opposition when the euphoria would pass, would find themselves another excuse why they shouldn’t act as Georgia did. <\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> Hmm. Oh, that’s not exactly what I was asking you, but it’s actually even more interesting. Because you’re really making the case for, <\/span>I’m gonna say, other than some select groups, excuse me\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n Gregg:<\/b><\/span> Like, for instance, yourself and your Congress, there’s a lot of people who are the opposition in voice but not in action. But is what’s happening in Georgia any kind of an actual sign of loss of power for Putin himself? Is it significant to him? <\/span><\/p>\n Ilya:<\/b><\/span>